We live in the End of Times, Besieged from every direction, and Our Existence is on the brink of Annihilation. Mankind has reached its boiling point, but Fear Not, Faeit is at hand, and it is I who shall uncover the secrets of our deliverance.
I make no bones about not liking super barbie, sorry. I do like them trying to expand the tables and bring in some superheavies/knights to the regular game. But we're still playing on 6x4 and trying to get fliers/knights/etc on the board. I can still play EPIC and get the same mileage, so for me I'm just not a fan.
I've been around a while too, so I've seen things come and go. I thought they scored a hit with the Riptide - just this one doesn't do the same thing for me. Rules wise, they seemed to be trying to do too much with it. 4 weapons but can only use two gives you "options", but also seems to waste points better spent somewhere else.
Meh. I still don't see how one 9inch model is a sign of a possible merger of normal 40k with apocalypse-esque units. I'd honestly rather have GW sort out Forge world legalizations before they start adding superheavies into mainstream.
I've collected Iyanden since that great article in WD 248 (13 years) so this thing MUST join my Revenant Titan on my shelf, but I've tried making a list with it and it makes a BIG hole - especially if you upgrade so it has a 5++ save. I'm hoping its speed will save it - moving 12 inches and shooting a scatterlaser and twinlinked 3x str6 ap2 blasts THEN charging a land raider or something...
Failing that it might still be vital though, I need people to shoot at something besides my wraithlords - even if that means droppod sternguard neuter it in turn 1. Maybe a Warphunter or Fireprism instead though, since that leaves me more points for other goodies.
Another thought, the Forgeworld Wraithseer costs about as much.
I can see the merger being hey you own a wraithknight for your normally army? Buy the 6th ed apoc book and get the apoc version rule set! Then suddenly baneblades and stompas are also in the 6th ed IG and Ork books... along with the meganaught in the marine dex. Probably the best way to sell $115 kits and $50 supplement book.
As a non-Eldar/Necron player, look at your current list and count how many units can wound the Wraithguard - not reliably, just in general. Then remember that 5/6th of an Eldar army is there to remove some of those units.
Wraithknights and Riptides do decent damage, but they rarely die to an 1850 pt army's shooting. Eldar and Tau are soft. Any shot that isn't directed at a T3/4 model may as well be a waste.
As a side note, yes, you can give it 4 guns, and yes, it can only shoot two. You can also give a Marine commander two guns when he can only shoot one, but nobody complains/does it.
It's not shooting that will kill it but close combat.
Imagine it being charged by plague bearers, or something with a balesword, or anything that causes instant death at AP2.
It should never be in combat. It's fundamentally anti-tank, especially with I4 and Ws4. The real problem is the things it'd be good against aren't on the battlefield - yet. Perhaps that's the point but then... you could get ten wraithguard with S10 weapons in it's place....
For the record, it is i5. It is great in selective combats as well. Obviously you want to avoid getting charged by anything with poison or instant death, but it can easily overrun many non-marine infantry units. Being able to move 12" means that you can certainly keep your distance from most perilous close combat threats (flying monstrous creatures are the exception). Anyway, it is huge, looks awesome, and is really fun to play with :D
Are the extra weapons not there to provide fire during different phases? When shooting the blasts are used and the secondary weapons fulfill a purpose in overwatch?
Normal RoF. I think the Scatter Laser is mainly there to twin link the Suncannon. They are also good as primary guns if you take the ghostglaive/scatter shield .
To me this is the perfect model to release along with a video from the game designers. Just a hint to what the though process was would be great, heck just to answer why it is so large.
The thing is $146 in Canada. That is unreasonably expensive. The only way I could justify buying this thing is if I was going to use it as a proxy for a Revinant Titan. Beyond that, I just can't justify that thing.
Ouch. Yeah, you're going to want to do the discounted online thing. I'm assuming some talented people out there are going to make some sweet Revenant conversions with the Wraithknight,
Why do they have pics of the wraithknight having a wraithcannon and scatterfield, and having shoudler sponsors being D-sycthes yet no rules to make that model?
I think the biggest dissapointment for me with the wraithknight is its armor save only being 3+. Most armies are not going to struggle with it, and if it was a 2+ it would be about right for those points. It looks like the weakest of the three ubersuits to me, but is also the most expensive ($$ and points). Dreadknight will destroy it in a single round of close combat 9 times in 10, and the Riptide can outshoot and is more survivable. Neither the Dreadknight or the Riptide worry much about Krak Missiles, but they will be the bane of these guys.
Having the toughness 8 makes sure that only a very small amount of weapons can actually hurt them though, anything less than S5 (i.e. 90% of most armies)is useless against them.
While I agree that is a huge advantage. No one shows up to a game with only Str 4 shooting. Long Fangs with 5 Missiles should be a couple wounds a round. With 3 Heavy Support choices, the Wraith Knight will last 1-2 rounds tops. Against a Dreadknight, the Dreadknight is STR 10 and will activate its force weapon on the first sucessful wound. Against a Riptide, it stands a decent chance I guess since the Ion Accelerator is Str 7, but the Riptide gets to be shooty and have an invulnerable save, but the Wraithknight has to give up its big guns to get a invulnerable save. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes stand a good chance against it too, especially with a Daemon Weapon.
At the end of the day, no unit exists in a vacuum. We cant just look at the Eldar Codex and decide if its good or not. We need to look at all the Armies to judge its worth. I think the real winner here is the Wraithlord. It will be easier to get a cover save for the Wraithlord, it will be STR9 and re-rolling a miss in close combat due to the Ghost Glaive, and can be given a Scatter Laser to TL a Bright Lance or Missile Launcher
I've finally caught on to how to use one now. I was looking at 'Jump Monstrous Creature' but didn't stop to think that it could Deep Strike.
That's how it survives being the alpha target - its not there until turn 2+ and then it could be INSIDE your opponents deployment zone, blowing up his deathstar unit!
I have played two games using the wraith knight and I have to say I like it even at 300+ pts. Its T8 and 6 wounds are durable. In a standard game where you and your opponent set up terrain as you will put half of the terrain onto the table you should be able to manipulate the table enough to set locations up for cover saves, and even if not you can still get the 5++ which I recommend. Its jump ability makes it incredibly mobile and unlike the wraith lord pouring in a bunch of S8 AP3 shots isn't as guaranteed as 6 wounds is a hell of allot more to chew through. The scatter laser reroll suncannon shots is incredibly handy as you advance to close into melee, and yes this guy is going to eat up some shots as your opponent tries to take him down before the melee beat down.
Yes there are going to be some moments where this model wont shine mass poison shooting weapons, or 20+ fearless squads tarpitting it, but most decent players should be able to mitigate this with the rest of their army.
Tournament players are going to have some issue with this as its not as slam dunk as say 3 heldrakes with bale flamers. Understandably in the tournament setting you don't normally have player terrain set up, "or possibly even much terrain" either.
Overall though I believe it is solid even at it's high cost in a high points cost army.
I was think the same way about deep striking. Taking the fighter with the wraith Knight, and perhaps another deep striking or outflanking unit, will make your opponent at least make a tough decision about his interceptor fire.
The problem with wraithlords is that they take up a whole HS slot for just 3 wounds... die pretty easily with to long fangs and AT heavy weaponry...at least you can get double the wounds but still have 2 HS slots left...
I havent read the codex, but i expect you dont HAVE to take 4 weapons and that 2 of those slots are options. And surely if you take 2 CC weapons and 2 range weapons he can use all 4 weapons every turn?
Yeah, it starts with 2 anti-tank guns, and can replace them with shield and either sword or single anti-TEQ blast gun. It can buy up to 2x scatter or star or shuriken cannons in any combo, but can only shoot 2 guns a turn (monstrous creature). I'm planning on suncannon and shield plus one scatter laser for the twin-linked. Anti-tank will be the fists and feet at str10.
It'd probably look strange, but if I took a Suncannon I'd take one scatter laser on the shoulder for the lazer lock rule - that's 300 points though, like you said.
Other than that I'd consider Glaive+Shield+Scatter+Star, but in all probability I'd take just the base loadout.
Hope my spirit seer rolls Destructor/Renewer and Protect/Jinx alot! :)
It also only works on a 6, just to get twin linked. Far better to use a psychich power to get a higher BS, such as the Spirit Seer rule.
It is all pointing toward a 'future' game type, one where the units such a model would be good against are fielded en mass. At the moment it's looking for a role.
Are you talking about Laser Lock on the scatter laser? Because I don't read anything about 6s - it just has to hit. This is 20pts to be able to re-roll the scatter on 3x BLAST suncannon shots? I'll pay it.
Whether I field it every game depends on the actual performance.
The laser lock rule says 'roll to hit with this weapon first. If it hits, all other weapons on that model are twin-linked for the rest of that phase.' Codex rules over BRB rules.
It's tough to say whether it's worth it or not. The problem is at $115 that costs a lot to put in on the field to try it out. It'll definitely be a huge fire magnet just because it's so damn big, but I dunno. I really wish it could assault zooming flyers. That would have been awesome if it could swat them down like King Kong.
Anyone stop to think that this thing could be killed in a single turn by a unit of dark eldar trueborn with splinter cannons and shaed carbines? Seems to me it would be too easy.
I love the guys who say my this could kill this with no effort arguements, as if terrain, troop placement, and turn order have no place in the game at all. Now if trueborn ignore 3+ armor, 4++ cover save, and 5++ invulnerable save, and don't need to roll to hit and 4+ to wound then yeah I guess you could kill it easy peasy.
$1million dollar question - and hotly debated.
ReplyDeleteI make no bones about not liking super barbie, sorry. I do like them trying to expand the tables and bring in some superheavies/knights to the regular game. But we're still playing on 6x4 and trying to get fliers/knights/etc on the board. I can still play EPIC and get the same mileage, so for me I'm just not a fan.
I've been around a while too, so I've seen things come and go. I thought they scored a hit with the Riptide - just this one doesn't do the same thing for me. Rules wise, they seemed to be trying to do too much with it. 4 weapons but can only use two gives you "options", but also seems to waste points better spent somewhere else.
Meh. I still don't see how one 9inch model is a sign of a possible merger of normal 40k with apocalypse-esque units. I'd honestly rather have GW sort out Forge world legalizations before they start adding superheavies into mainstream.
ReplyDeleteHear Hear... (about the Forgeworld bit anyway).
DeleteI've collected Iyanden since that great article in WD 248 (13 years) so this thing MUST join my Revenant Titan on my shelf, but I've tried making a list with it and it makes a BIG hole - especially if you upgrade so it has a 5++ save. I'm hoping its speed will save it - moving 12 inches and shooting a scatterlaser and twinlinked 3x str6 ap2 blasts THEN charging a land raider or something...
Failing that it might still be vital though, I need people to shoot at something besides my wraithlords - even if that means droppod sternguard neuter it in turn 1. Maybe a Warphunter or Fireprism instead though, since that leaves me more points for other goodies.
Another thought, the Forgeworld Wraithseer costs about as much.
I can see the merger being hey you own a wraithknight for your normally army? Buy the 6th ed apoc book and get the apoc version rule set! Then suddenly baneblades and stompas are also in the 6th ed IG and Ork books... along with the meganaught in the marine dex. Probably the best way to sell $115 kits and $50 supplement book.
Delete@ rabid stoat
DeleteYou could try deep striking it.... LoL
As a non-Eldar/Necron player, look at your current list and count how many units can wound the Wraithguard - not reliably, just in general. Then remember that 5/6th of an Eldar army is there to remove some of those units.
ReplyDeleteWraithknights and Riptides do decent damage, but they rarely die to an 1850 pt army's shooting. Eldar and Tau are soft. Any shot that isn't directed at a T3/4 model may as well be a waste.
As a side note, yes, you can give it 4 guns, and yes, it can only shoot two. You can also give a Marine commander two guns when he can only shoot one, but nobody complains/does it.
It's not shooting that will kill it but close combat.
DeleteImagine it being charged by plague bearers, or something with a balesword, or anything that causes instant death at AP2.
It should never be in combat. It's fundamentally anti-tank, especially with I4 and Ws4. The real problem is the things it'd be good against aren't on the battlefield - yet. Perhaps that's the point but then... you could get ten wraithguard with S10 weapons in it's place....
It's a lovely model though.
For the record, it is i5. It is great in selective combats as well. Obviously you want to avoid getting charged by anything with poison or instant death, but it can easily overrun many non-marine infantry units. Being able to move 12" means that you can certainly keep your distance from most perilous close combat threats (flying monstrous creatures are the exception). Anyway, it is huge, looks awesome, and is really fun to play with :D
DeleteAre the extra weapons not there to provide fire during different phases? When shooting the blasts are used and the secondary weapons fulfill a purpose in overwatch?
ReplyDeleteThats possible... my 6th foo is weak... is overwatch a single shot or normal rof just needing that "6"
DeleteNormal RoF. I think the Scatter Laser is mainly there to twin link the Suncannon. They are also good as primary guns if you take the ghostglaive/scatter shield .
Deletecan you make a video of how ur going to megnetize the model
ReplyDeleteTo me this is the perfect model to release along with a video from the game designers. Just a hint to what the though process was would be great, heck just to answer why it is so large.
ReplyDeleteProbably, check this thing out, you'll love using it in Apocalypse. It'll go great with the two 120" rifles we threw in here too.
DeleteThe thing is $146 in Canada. That is unreasonably expensive.
ReplyDeleteThe only way I could justify buying this thing is if I was going to use it as a proxy for a Revinant Titan. Beyond that, I just can't justify that thing.
Ouch. Yeah, you're going to want to do the discounted online thing. I'm assuming some talented people out there are going to make some sweet Revenant conversions with the Wraithknight,
DeleteWhy do they have pics of the wraithknight having a wraithcannon and scatterfield, and having shoudler sponsors being D-sycthes yet no rules to make that model?
ReplyDeleteI think the biggest dissapointment for me with the wraithknight is its armor save only being 3+. Most armies are not going to struggle with it, and if it was a 2+ it would be about right for those points. It looks like the weakest of the three ubersuits to me, but is also the most expensive ($$ and points). Dreadknight will destroy it in a single round of close combat 9 times in 10, and the Riptide can outshoot and is more survivable. Neither the Dreadknight or the Riptide worry much about Krak Missiles, but they will be the bane of these guys.
ReplyDeleteI think wraithlords are a better option.
Having the toughness 8 makes sure that only a very small amount of weapons can actually hurt them though, anything less than S5 (i.e. 90% of most armies)is useless against them.
DeleteWhile I agree that is a huge advantage. No one shows up to a game with only Str 4 shooting. Long Fangs with 5 Missiles should be a couple wounds a round. With 3 Heavy Support choices, the Wraith Knight will last 1-2 rounds tops. Against a Dreadknight, the Dreadknight is STR 10 and will activate its force weapon on the first sucessful wound. Against a Riptide, it stands a decent chance I guess since the Ion Accelerator is Str 7, but the Riptide gets to be shooty and have an invulnerable save, but the Wraithknight has to give up its big guns to get a invulnerable save. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes stand a good chance against it too, especially with a Daemon Weapon.
DeleteAt the end of the day, no unit exists in a vacuum. We cant just look at the Eldar Codex and decide if its good or not. We need to look at all the Armies to judge its worth. I think the real winner here is the Wraithlord. It will be easier to get a cover save for the Wraithlord, it will be STR9 and re-rolling a miss in close combat due to the Ghost Glaive, and can be given a Scatter Laser to TL a Bright Lance or Missile Launcher
I've finally caught on to how to use one now. I was looking at 'Jump Monstrous Creature' but didn't stop to think that it could Deep Strike.
ReplyDeleteThat's how it survives being the alpha target - its not there until turn 2+ and then it could be INSIDE your opponents deployment zone, blowing up his deathstar unit!
The possibility is worth 240+ points, I think.
I have played two games using the wraith knight and I have to say I like it even at 300+ pts. Its T8 and 6 wounds are durable. In a standard game where you and your opponent set up terrain as you will put half of the terrain onto the table you should be able to manipulate the table enough to set locations up for cover saves, and even if not you can still get the 5++ which I recommend. Its jump ability makes it incredibly mobile and unlike the wraith lord pouring in a bunch of S8 AP3 shots isn't as guaranteed as 6 wounds is a hell of allot more to chew through. The scatter laser reroll suncannon shots is incredibly handy as you advance to close into melee, and yes this guy is going to eat up some shots as your opponent tries to take him down before the melee beat down.
DeleteYes there are going to be some moments where this model wont shine mass poison shooting weapons, or 20+ fearless squads tarpitting it, but most decent players should be able to mitigate this with the rest of their army.
Tournament players are going to have some issue with this as its not as slam dunk as say 3 heldrakes with bale flamers. Understandably in the tournament setting you don't normally have player terrain set up, "or possibly even much terrain" either.
Overall though I believe it is solid even at it's high cost in a high points cost army.
I was think the same way about deep striking. Taking the fighter with the wraith Knight, and perhaps another deep striking or outflanking unit, will make your opponent at least make a tough decision about his interceptor fire.
Delete**wish list*** wish they had a reverse smash, "swathe- half strength for twice the attacks."
DeleteThe problem with wraithlords is that they take up a whole HS slot for just 3 wounds... die pretty easily with to long fangs and AT heavy weaponry...at least you can get double the wounds but still have 2 HS slots left...
ReplyDeleteI havent read the codex, but i expect you dont HAVE to take 4 weapons and that 2 of those slots are options. And surely if you take 2 CC weapons and 2 range weapons he can use all 4 weapons every turn?
ReplyDeleteYeah, it starts with 2 anti-tank guns, and can replace them with shield and either sword or single anti-TEQ blast gun. It can buy up to 2x scatter or star or shuriken cannons in any combo, but can only shoot 2 guns a turn (monstrous creature). I'm planning on suncannon and shield plus one scatter laser for the twin-linked. Anti-tank will be the fists and feet at str10.
DeleteWould you be able to post a comparison shot of a knight next to the Eldar titans?
ReplyDeleteCheck the previews of the Iyanden codex ;)
DeleteIt'd probably look strange, but if I took a Suncannon I'd take one scatter laser on the shoulder for the lazer lock rule - that's 300 points though, like you said.
ReplyDeleteOther than that I'd consider Glaive+Shield+Scatter+Star, but in all probability I'd take just the base loadout.
Hope my spirit seer rolls Destructor/Renewer and Protect/Jinx alot! :)
It also only works on a 6, just to get twin linked. Far better to use a psychich power to get a higher BS, such as the Spirit Seer rule.
DeleteIt is all pointing toward a 'future' game type, one where the units such a model would be good against are fielded en mass. At the moment it's looking for a role.
@pegboard
DeleteAre you talking about Laser Lock on the scatter laser? Because I don't read anything about 6s - it just has to hit. This is 20pts to be able to re-roll the scatter on 3x BLAST suncannon shots? I'll pay it.
Whether I field it every game depends on the actual performance.
rabid stoat (fantastic name by the way!) you're quite right. My apologies.
DeleteThe weird bit is it then goes on to say that all other weapons are twin linked, but all shots occur simultaneously. How's that work then?
The laser lock rule says 'roll to hit with this weapon first. If it hits, all other weapons on that model are twin-linked for the rest of that phase.' Codex rules over BRB rules.
DeleteIt's tough to say whether it's worth it or not. The problem is at $115 that costs a lot to put in on the field to try it out. It'll definitely be a huge fire magnet just because it's so damn big, but I dunno. I really wish it could assault zooming flyers. That would have been awesome if it could swat them down like King Kong.
ReplyDeleteAnyone stop to think that this thing could be killed in a single turn by a unit of dark eldar trueborn with splinter cannons and shaed carbines? Seems to me it would be too easy.
ReplyDeleteI love the guys who say my this could kill this with no effort arguements, as if terrain, troop placement, and turn order have no place in the game at all. Now if trueborn ignore 3+ armor, 4++ cover save, and 5++ invulnerable save, and don't need to roll to hit and 4+ to wound then yeah I guess you could kill it easy peasy.
Delete@anonymous If you think like that, then the opposite is true. In a perfect situation a wraithknight can kill full paladin unit in a single turn.
ReplyDelete